Review: NCIS 6x24 "Aliyah"

[bananacosmicgirl]

For once, I'll post my review before I read everyone else's reviews of the episode, and then I'll see if they match at all. Yes, I know I'm late - I've been busy with other things, other shows, and after the trainwreck of the NCIS:LA introduction, I just didn't feel like watching.

Ziva.

I. Just. Don't. Care.

They have mangled her character into something I have no idea what it is. I see her in the final scene being beaten and I couldn't care less. In fact, I'm hoping that she'll be killed off and not come back to the team. The whole "veil" (more like choking blanket) of secrecy around her has long since played out its part. The "sexual tension" between her and Tony has been much the same as the crap between Jenny and Gibbs. Are the NCIS writers completely incapable of writing interesting, well-rounded female characters?

Also, I'm very tired of the multilayered secrets this way and that. First we had Jenny with all of her stupid vendettas and idiotic undercover missions, and now we have not only Vance with the is-he-or-isn't-he-a-good-guy, but we also have ten thousand versions of previous canon events, what with Eli/Mossad/Ari/Ziva/Rivkin and other characters I can't be bothered to recall. Everything is about moles, secrets, and getting people beat up this way and that. Are they honestly suggesting that Ziva has been lying to the team/NCIS about her allegiances, and to Gibbs about Ari, for years and we're still supposed to like her and root for her? Seriously?

I will say, at this point in my ranting, that I did enjoy at least parts of the episode. There were some good scene - most of them between Gibbs and Tony. Gibbs' unwavering trust in Tony is beautiful to see.

Also, I didn't see the Tiva. Which was a relief. I have absolutely no trouble seeing this as Tony being worried about his colleague and friend, and using the curiosity that he was born with to check up on her. With the talk a few episodes back (the boxing episode, I don't remember what it was called, but that was another mess) about how he still isn't over Jeanne, I really can't see that all of what happened was triggered by jealousy. I don't see him wanting Ziva. I have never seen him wanting Ziva. In I think season five, there was the episode where Ziva was blah-blahing on and on about soulmates. There, I think it's kind of obvious that she might be in love with him, but he's not interested in her. He has the look of get-me-out-of-here! while she's talking.

If I have to take Ziva as a character seriously - and really, I don't - I guess that her anger towards Tony about killing Rivkin is more fuelled by the fact that she knows that she's to blame, just like the other Mossad-dude said, more than at Tony. She knows she let her personal feelings get in the way. Also, if she is in fact interested in Tony, then her way of showing it sucks and either way, she needs serious therapy.

Onto other things.

Except for the scenes with Tony, Gibbs felt distant like he has on several occasions this season. At least this season finale wasn't tied to something that happened to Gibbs in 1991.

Tony was... oh, I don't know. I can't decide. On the one hand, I love Tony. On the other, he feels so extremely one-dimensional this season, not unlike Ziva (although on a whole, I feel Tony's character makes a lot more sense than Ziva's does). I would have liked to see more of a reaction to shooting Rivkin, would've liked to see some feelings.

I've been re-watching Buffy (as I've mentioned before here on LJ), and I adore the way they let the characters talk. They don't cut off in the middle of a scene for "suspense" or whatever. They let the characters talk, or for that matter be quiet, which gives great depth to the characters. NCIS? Not so much. They always stop when it's getting interesting. Gibbs and Ducky in the basement? Ducky asks about what happened, and they just cut the scene. I realize that we already know what Gibbs was thinking, but I really think there are more layers to add to what happened (especially as they've never actually talked about what happened on the show, other than the tearful scene when Gibbs regained most of his memory). And that's just one example - they always do the same thing. Cut off in the middle, where I would've liked to see what they say, or not say.

Anyway, that was a tangent. But yeah, I still feel Tony's one-dimensional this season. He's been a clown, a frat boy, and except for the elevator scene with the girl in the boxing-episode, the writers seem to completely have forgotten that there's more to him than that. He can be so much more. I believe fanfic writers have shown again and again that his character is full of possibilities.

Then again, I'm not always sure I want more, knowing the mess they made of Gibbs' past.

I enjoyed the scene with Tony and the Director of Mossad. That was a nice scene and Tony showed his skills. He played Eli, and that was very good to see.

I kind of enjoyed the scene between Tony and Ziva in Tel Aviv. No sympathy whatsoever for Ziva, but there was some emotion in Tony at least.

McGee annoyed the crap out of me, which isn't unusual (unfortunately). For some reason, the writers feel the need for him to be "funny", which was just inappropriate - and boring, when repeating the same "joke". Like Gibbs' coolness has been a reoccuring theme, McGee's inappropriate humor and ass-ness has been too. He's been hitting Tony under the belt (the "Love and War"-comment about Jeanne comes to mind), he's been making inappropriate comments (the bag-comment in "Bounce", if I remember right) and he's been acting like he's the best thing NCIS has ever seen (pretty much every episode). It was nice seeing McGee's character growth in the prison-episode, but why can't we have character growth without arrogance?

Abby. Oh, Abby. Haven't we seen the whole Abby-hugs-Tony-when-he's-hurt routine a few times already? Are the writers really running so low on ideas that they have to re-use everything? On top of that, she's highly annoying when Gibbs calls from Tel Aviv. They've gone to Tel Aviv, Tony hurt and quite possibly facing danger - and she's babbling on and on and on about... whatever, I don't remember what it was. Just shut up. And when will Gibbs actually tell her to shut up? He has no trouble telling anyone else.

Ducky was probably the only character I didn't have any issues with. Palmer was there for some reason - and that makes sense in autopsy, but in the bullpen? Not so much. Sitting in Tony's chair? Even less.

Well, this turned long. As an ending note, I'll say that I will tune in next season, but if they spend the first four episodes getting Ziva back and then acting as though nothing has happened, then I will definitely throw something at my computer screen. And if they can't stop with all this crap with secrets and moles and sleeper cells and more secrets, then I'll probably go bang my head into the wall.

ETA: Oh, and the room where Gibbs, Vance and Ziva were watching the interrogation-whatever with Eli and Tony? Could they not have done a better job disguising the regular interrogation room? *snort* I think it was even the same table.

Comments

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

Agrees with some of what you say, other bits not quite so much.

Definitely agrees over the whole comparison to Buffy and letting them talk, etc.

As for Jimmy. As much as I love him to me his presence was exactly the same as in S4 finale. The writers suddenly thought 'ooh, Jimmy has been with the show for so long, let's put him in an episode. Do we have a reason? Nah, but that doesn't matter.' As for him in the squad room, by take is that they are harking back to the Tony & Jimmy scene in 'Bounce'.

Overall I didn't think it was a great finale.

I don't think Ziva has been lying. I think either Eli is playing Vance and Vance genuinely believes it, or Vance is lying to Gibbs for whatever reason.

I too would like to have seen some reaction from Tony killing Rivkin. Whether he was a good guy or a bad guy at the end of the day that kind of encounter there should have been far more than what in effect came over as total detachment and 'so what'? He isn't that cold.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

I figured you'd agree with some, other not. I just went over to read your review :)

I honestly don't get the point of Jimmy a whole lot of the time. I like his character, I do, but he seems pointless quite often. I enjoyed the Bounce-scene when they were doing their impressions or whatever, but at least then Ducky was up there as well. This time, it was just like you say - "oh, he hasn't been in the episode all that much, let's add him!"

No, agreed. To be perfectly honest, none of the finales I've watched so far - NCIS, House, Scrubs and Bones - have been very good. If rated, I'd say House was best (though only the last ten minutes, the rest was dull), and then NCIS.

I don't know what to think about Ziva. And more to the point, as is obvoius above, I don't care. And that's a shame, because she could've been a character I loved. Heck, she was a character I loved. Now she's just... not.

Yes, exactly. And that ties back to the whole "let the characters talk" thing. If they did let the characters talk, then Tony wouldn't have felt so cold throughout the episode. (Also, if they let the characters talk, maybe that'd have taken some screentime and we wouldn't have had to deal with quite so many twists). Sometimes I doubt the writers even know the chracters well enough to let them talk.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

It'd be awfully boring if we agreed over everything, would it not?

Ah, I mean the scene when Tony uses Jimmy as Gibbs uses Ducky. They meet in the evidence garage and Jimmy says he'd laid in a supply of coffee and then he helps Tony with the case - pretty much as Ducky helps Gibbs. And people were saying 'cute scene' but where's the background, etc. So my guess was it was a nod at that to let us know that there was a friendship/attachment between them. Hence the 'Tony' and 'Jimmy' when Abby was calling him 'Palmer'. The impressions was at the beginning of Judgement Day.

I enjoyed House, very much indeed. I thought Grey's, which I don't think you watch was amazing. So I'd rate GA, House, NCIS. More than one person has said that a better ending for NCIS would have been last week's episode.

Not caring is far, far, far worse than actively disliking, etc. When the whole dislike of Jenny was round, at least it was something positive insofar as people cared because they disliked her, but you and others have used the 'not care' and that's not good for the show.

The writers have just done things to virtually all the characters this season to make people dislike them or just no longer care. I just don't know why.

*Nods in agreement* Now Gibbs I could see being that detached, because hey he's Gibbs. But not Tony - he shows his feelings in whatever way, but cold really sums him up. I think you're right on that fact, I'm not sure they do *sighs*

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

*g* It definitely would be.

Ah, you mean that scene. Well, then I understand what you mean more. I guess it's just so badly built, the Tony/Jimmy friendship, that it throws me when they suddenly have him in a scene. I don't think the two have interacted at any point since that Gibbs/Ducky 2.0 scene, right? At least not on their own.

Indifference is definitely extremely bad for a show. In a way, the way people get riled up about how bad Bones has gotten is better - because then we still care. But Ziva? I can't be bothered.

I really don't know either. People can do bad things that the viewers won't agree with (Buffy and Spike in season six are excellent examples), but we have to still like the basics of who the characters are. Unfortunately, I still have no idea who Ziva is, or who Tony is. I have a better grasp of McGee - but more of who he was *before* all of his current arrogance, than now. All of which makes it very hard for me to like them now that they're doing dumb things.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

The overall ratings this season show that we're not the only ones who are flailing around and going "what's happened to our show".

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

*Smiles* I'm glad you agree.

Yes, 'that' scene. It is badly built. We had nothing leading up to the 'coffee sharing' in 'Bounce' absolutely nothing. We go from Tony calling him 'The Autopsy Gremlin' or 'Palmer' or simply ignoring him. I can't think of a single friendly exchange between them. I'm not saying they were at odds, but the kind of 'did you have a good weekend' type of comment that colleagues share, something. But we've had nothing. Not even a hint, not a passing in Autopsy when Tony nodded at him, etc. etc. And then in 'Bounce' Jimmy is suddenly to Tony what Ducky is to Gibbs. Huh??? And you're right they haven't interacted since that moment. *Shakes head*

Indeed - that's it exactly. So bad.

I agree with you over Buffy and Spike in S6, but we did indeed have a basis for their characters and also an understandable reason/rationale. I understand what you're saying. And it's not just the field team, the less said about what they've done to Abby the better. I think we said before that with the exception of Gibbs and Ducky throughout and the others at odd times no one really seems to actually like one another. We've lost the 'family'. We've had odd glimpses of what we used to have. We had Tim fully supporting Tony under Gibbs's questions, without hesitation - just as Tony supported him in Probie. And Gibbs supporting Tony in a couple of episodes and some flashes of caring, but where have our closely knit team gone to?

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

I have to wonder, again as I know we've discussed it before, if the actors aren't getting along as well anymore. As it is, I don't understand how the team - if Ziva gets back - is supposed to function and trust each other. These are people facing life and death situations, so they can't go out and not trust each other.

Really, even if Ziva doesn't come back, I don't know how Tony and Tim are supposed to trust each other. They certainly don't behave as though they have each other's backs (although there was the scene in Aliyah where Tim supported Tony when saying something about how Tony wouldn't kill anyone just like that - but it's kind of a far cry to go from that to trusting each other with their lives). As you say, Ducky and Gibbs are the only ones who still seem to like each other.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

From everything I've heard the actors say they still get on as well as they ever did. Apparently it's hugs and kisses when arriving and leaving. I do wonder how happy MH is; he's been vocal about the spin-off and now SB is doing both shows, maybe he's really unhappy and again from what they say he's very much 'Daddy' off set as well - Cote used that term recently. So if he's not happy then the others might well be feeding off that.

I'm not sure how they're going to get Ziva back and make it believable. I just don't see how.

That scene was one of the few we've had this season that showed us the relationship they had prior to that, when you knew that whatever they did or said to one another when push came to shove they were there 110% for the other.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I really do hope we get some McGee - Tony bonding early in the season.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

With Jimmy, I think they're being prepared. DM isn't getting any younger and I think they're hedging their bets for the time when, for whatever reason, Ducky can't be around. So they're bringing Jimmy along and making sure we're ready for him.

As to why he was in the bullpen, I kinda figured it was mostly for the same reason Abby was. They were waiting for the team to return. I'd love to see more of the Tony - Jimmy friendship. While Tony has been mentoring McGee in being an agent, I get the feeling he's been mentoring Jimmy in an even more older brotherly way.

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

Ziva.
I. Just. Don't. Care.
Me neither. As far as I'm concerned the episode ends with the plane taking off from Tel Aviv, and is decidedly not a cliffhanger.

Are the NCIS writers completely incapable of writing interesting, well-rounded female characters?
They seem to have exhausted themselves with Kate, and heaven knows what they would have done with her if the actress had stayed on.

Are they honestly suggesting that Ziva has been lying to the team/NCIS about her allegiances, and to Gibbs about Ari, for years and we're still supposed to like her and root for her? Seriously?
That confuses me a lot, too, because it means either I have not understood the episode or the writers are very very strange people. (Unless there is far more to Vance than we know. Which would also be annoying, but still the lesser evil.)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

GMTA. :-)

I think Vance is onto Eli, but is going to give him enough rope to hang himself. Might be hanging SecNav, as well, or SecNav may be one of the few people who know about Vance. I'm starting to think that Vance is a "legend" himself and the only "real" things about him are his family and his devotion to the US.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

As Nakeisha says above, it really isn't a good thing that we don't care. Disliking, hating, loving - all are much better than not caring.

*g* I have no idea what they'd have done. I was never particularly fond of Kate - she was kinda stuck up and wound way too tightly about sex - but I did care. When she died, it was shocking. If Ziva died, I'd shrug.

I don't know what they're implying. Someone's playing someone - whether it's Eli playing Vance, Vance playing Gibbs, Ziva playing Gibbs/everyone... I don't know. But again, I can't be bothered with it, because it's all just so secrety secret, and the previous secrets have been handled so very badly (see: everything to do with Jenny *eyeroll*).

[tejas.livejournal.com]

The thing about Kate was that even though she could be annoying, she was far more *real* than Ziva has ever been. She was simply a better written character and maybe it *is* better she was only around for two seasons so they couldn't screw her up.

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

You know, I've been starting to wonder how much of it has to do with the fact that Cote de Pablo and Lauren Holly were/are arguably the two actors least like their characters. It's as if the writers are lost when they have to do all the work themselves. (To be fair, I don't know much about Lauren Holly, but Cote and Ziva are pretty much polar opposites.)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point. By all accounts, MH has quite a few Gibbsian qualities. MW *definitely* has Tonyesque qualities (or maybe it's the other way around now ;-). Any clue as to how close SM is to McGee? PP and Abby seem to have some points of similarity, too.

Or maybe they've just gotten lazy because of the cast they started with. Not to take anything from CdP. I think she's done an amazing job with the crap she's been given. It's just silk purse and sow's ear thing.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

Hmh, hadn't thought of it, but I definitely agree with Cote/Ziva being polar opposites. I figure that Cote, and the Big Guys Upstairs, are the ones who've decided that Ziva should wear makeup and straighten her hair, for example. If anyone suggested to season 3-Ziva that she should spend half an hour (at least) straightening her hair every morning, she'd have... done something nasty.

As for the others, they definitely have qualities of the characters/actors. I think Abby has suffered changed so much from season 1 Abby to today's idiocy because of PP. The fact that Tony can't seem to develop past the whole frat boy image is undoubtedly at least partly because MW likes playing him(self) that way.

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

Did you see the interview where Cote was all excited about getting to 'dress up' for the Moroccan bar scene? I have nothing against pretty dresses, but all I could think was 'uh, honey, I am not sure you understand who Ziva is'. This might be petty of me, but it seemed like she was more concerned with having fun on the show (not that there's anything wrong with that) than staying true to Ziva's established character.

I recently re-watched 'Kill Ari', and that was definitely a very different Ziva back then. (*sigh* I liked her so much.)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I don't *mind* those aspects of the characters, but they've overtaken the parts of the characters I like far better. I want the meat back in dominance with the seasoning being added to taste... rather than the other way around.

[trinity-destler.livejournal.com]

The fact that Tony can't seem to develop past the whole frat boy image is undoubtedly at least partly because MW likes playing him(self) that way.

I know I'm butting in and all, but he played an incredibly serious and driven character for two years without any problems (Logan Cale), and I'm sure he's played others. The fact that he described the character as "repulsive" (among other things) also leads me to believe he's not seeing himself in Tony.

In general, I think it's a huge mistake to blame the actors for the characters' growth or lack thereof. It's not on them and the cast has done an admirable job giving depth to shallow writing in the past. The writers on NCIS have always sacrificed good characterisation for cheap laughs and the tone has always been uneven; I think it's the show's biggest flaw and responsibility for it rests with the showrunner.

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

In the DVD cast round table (season 3 or 4) Sean Murray said he likes McGee's 'geekish' qualities and that he once built a computer from scrap. And they all agreed pretty quickly on Cote when asked who was least like their character.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

That pretty much says it all.

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Any kind of reaction in an audience is preferable to not caring. If it was fic I would say their beta reader failed big time. :D

As teja said in her post, it doesn't even matter if what we are thinking is going on turns out to be wrong, but we should think we know what is going on, and at this point we simply don't.

My completely unfounded instinctive opinion: Eli is playing both Vance and Ziva (and possibly trying to play Gibbs), Vance is trying to play Eli, Gibbs, and Ziva by proxy (and will ultimately fail), and Ziva is pretty much the victim (which I hate on principle, but that is another debate).

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

If what's happening on the show was fic, I doubt all that many would be reading. There are so many, many fanfics out there that are so, so, so much better...

[tuawahine.livejournal.com]

:D

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Ziva.

I. Just. Don't. Care.

That pretty much sums it up.

But then, you probably expected me to say that. ;-)

The stupid UST and the equally stupid mobeius thread of secrets and lies eat the real estate that used to be devoted to the characters themselves.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

I did expect you to say that - especially after I headed over to your LJ to see if you had any thoughts on the episode, and found a very articlate entry about how indifferent you are to Ziva. And I have to agree with everything you said, I think.

Why does all shows seem to think that UST is what will make everything great and the ratings go up? House, Bones, NCIS. *headdesk* And the secrets... well, I ranted on a bout that for a while above.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I *like* a show that makes me think. I *like* it when they drop hints and scatter a few lies for us to ferret out. I've enjoyed a good bit of the "is he or isn't he" stuff about Vance. It's oddly refreshing. That's *fun*, but *this*? This is nonsense.

As to the UST... I ranted about that in my LJ awhile back. It's the first essay on my Master fic post.

[xanthelj.livejournal.com]

So many of us are saying the same thing about the moles and spies and theme of "distrust" all season. And about Ziva. I wish she'd die - that's terrible but I do. I hate her now and can't see how they can possibly redeem her.

I didn't mind "Aliyah". At least there was no terrible and very wrong "Tiva". And at least we saw competent!Tony and Gibbs choosing Tony over Ziva (and how nasty was that ultimatum she gave him?!).

I didn't mind Jimmy being there - he and Tony clearly have some kind of weird friendship going on as evidenced in "Bounce" and he was worried about him and wanted to welcome him home. I thought it was quite sweet. I like Jimmy and would like to see more of him.

I liked Abby hugging Tony as well - he's hurt and he's been away and she would hug him. I didn't mind that - I really wanted *someone* to hug Tony and love him a bit because he's been through hell, poor boy. And I DID like Gibbs giving him that little ass pat so that was nice *g*.

But I don't like what they've done to our show. And I couldn't care less about beatenup!ziva. Are we seriously SUPPOSED to care after the character assasination they did on her?

And McGee - it's all just so wrong. His behaviour is off in so many ways. WHY?! I don't know what they're thinking. But everyone is off really. Gibbs seems kind of tired and distant and this whole "can we trust Vance?" thing is wearing so thin.

I wonder if they can pull it around in S7 or if they've lost viewers for good. THEY seemed to think they had exciting shows lined up for us, but by and large it was all very "meh". Sigh.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

I didn't mind "Aliyah" either - it was a decent episode. But they are assassinating the characters.

I didn't see Ziva's ultimatum as her being nasty, though - it seemed to me like her playing Gibbs a little, because she needed him to pick Tony over her, or something.

Nakeisha gave me the same reasoning for Jimmy's presence, which I guess makes sense - but as they haven't shown me any of the Tony/Jimmy relationship beyond the very strange talk they had in Bounce, my mind doesn't immediately go to that place when I see him in the bullpen. It does make sense, but I'd forgotten about it because they haven't given me enough of it to remember.

I wanted someone to hug and love Tony as well - but every time he's been hurt, Abby hugs him in a way that hurts him. Why couldn't she have given him a nice, gentle hug instead? It would've been that much sweeter. There was no need for "humor" there.

I have no idea if they can salvage the show. It's in pieces as is, the team not trusting each other one iota...

[pegasuspup.livejournal.com]

Wow, someone who thinks like me. Interesting. I too, am flummoxed by all of this so-called "Tiva" stuff. I've never seen Tony express any interest in Ziva beyond teammate and colleague. He might be interested in who she's dating/sleeping with, but that's because he's nosy, and gets a thrill about finding out stuff. He is an investigator, after all. The only thing I don't really get is everyone assuming that Tony's interest in Ziva is sexual/personal, yet Tony says nothing to correct their impressions.

Ziva, on the other hand, has been stalking Tony for ages, and as far as I can tell, it has always been unrequited and annoying, Gibbs told her to back off (in "Suspicion"), Ducky told her to back off ("Angel of Death"), Tony blatantly ignores her needy attempt and bonding (in "Cloak"). What is the first thing he says when the op is over in "Under Covers" - "I want a divorce!" I get it, they are two good-looking people working closely together. I just don't see them having a romanitic relationship together.

Moreover, I don't even see that Ziva respects Tony. She disses him, works with McGee (major asshattery with him all season, god what a jerk he's been all season) to keep him down, deliberately misleads him, and ultimatesly, disregards him again with that line, "I wouldn't tell you, but I'd tell Gibbs." Yeah, that is exactly how I'd want my partner, and more importantly, my romantic partner to act.

It isn't that I don't care that Ziva has been captured and is now being tortured, it is that she has been captured and is now being tortured for her knowledge of ... NCIS? (pause to have a good belly laugh and to scratch my head.) All right, they want to know about NCIS? Not, the CIA, or Mossad, but NCIS? Cops who investigate Navy crimes? Why her? Why not steak out the coffee shop where McGee writes and snag him? He probably know tons more about NCIS, having worked 4 months in Computer Crimes, but you also know that you wouldn't have to torture him too much. One or two fingernails and he'd be putty in a terrorists hands.


Gibbs has been internalizing a lot of stuff for the last couple of years. Or perhaps I should say, the writere have been having Gibbs internalizing stuff a lot more these last few years. During the marathons where you see lots of first and second season episodes, he is a tad more relaxed and more comfortable with his relationship with the team. I think Gibbs is trying to determine what is the best way to do his job, but you are right - there are too many secres and hidden agendas getting in the way of everything.

And speaking of earlier seasons, I liked Abby much better in the earlier seasons when she was cool and eccentric. This past year, and actually, probably longer (at least since Dog Tags), she's been a caricature of herself. What was up with her weird freak out about the Santa? And in Aliyah, when she and McGee called Gibbs, and all they did was babble on an on instead of reporting and getting back to work? Where are the old writers - bring them back, please?

But back to teh original rant - Ziva. She can be a strong person on her own - she doesn't need a relationship with Tony to be an important character. I wish the writers would see that, and write that, instead of taking the easy way out.

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

Well, word :) We are obviously in complete agreement. And the question on why they picked Ziva to torture about her knowledge of NCIS also had me *headdesk*ing. Seriously. What would Ziva know? More importantly, what would she know that other people don't know a lot more about, and who are not as resistent to torture (as you said - McGee)?

Good, then it's not just me who can't see Tony/Ziva. He has *never* been interested in her. You're completely right in her not respecting him - she has shown that again and again.

And yes, about the earlier seasons. Abby was so much better then. Oh, Dog Tags - I *hate* that episode. Hate, hate, hate. She's more worried about the dog and treats McGee like crap despite him just trying to get out of the situation alive. And everyone else indulges her. And *then* she forces Tim to take a dog he's *afraid* of.

Gaaah.

The babbling when they should be reporting annoys me greatly. And it's always the same these days. It's like the writers can't come up with anything new.

[pegasuspup.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know Ziva has been working at NCIS for the last few years, but her closest in, Director Sheppard, dead and gone, so really, WTF?

They keep on claiming that we'll never see what's coming when the new season starts. Frankly, if McGee picks up some manners, Abby gets her groove back, TOny gets to act in any manner other than a juvenile frat boy, Gibbs starts drinking decaf, and it turns out that it really has been the Director's evil twin running the agency the last year, then I'll be surprised. But, if they are going to come up with some way for Gibbs and team to rescue Ziva, for Ziva to discover that her dad is the one who arranged for her capture and torture, and that Gibbs knew about some secret plan all along, then, no, I won't be shocked or surprised. I won't be very happy, either.

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Fighting terrorism and intelligence gathering is one of NCIS's duties. The real NCIS probably does it very well. The show? Not these writers.

I think the reason Tony doesn't deny the accusations about Ziva is that in doing so it would direct more attention and since it's so obviously untrue, it's one more layer of mask to keep himself hidden behind.

[pegasuspup.livejournal.com]

I don't doubt that the Real NCIS does a good job at fighting terrorism (apparently, there is a tv show that documents that on at the same time our NCIS is on). I'm just wondering why the terrorists or whomever captured Ziva went through all the trouble to get her so that she would answer their pressing questions about NCIS. McGee much easier to get answers from.

And yes, of course Tony wouldn't confirm or deny any assumptions about his "jealousy" - as you say, Tony's whole persona is to put forth a front so that people underestimate him. WHy doesn't anyone else see that? Why do people assume that Tony is after Ziva - what about rule 3 - don't assume, check and verify?

[sigh]

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I think Gibbs is fully aware that there's nothing going on there. McGee? For all this growth from since he joined up, he's still not that good at reading people. Abby, of course, would know there's nothing there, as does Ducky. Ziva really seems to be the only one completely in the dark about her feelings not being returned.

As to why Ziva? Who the hell knows, unless they'd already gotten what they wanted out of her about Mossad and are now just looking for whatever else they can get. Though what she'll tell them is beyond me. I doubt she knows much that they'd care about and if they keep at her, she'll eventually make stuff up (if she hasn't already) just to get them to stop. Torture is a poor interrogation method if what you want is viable information. If you want your victim to say whatever you want to hear, then go for it. Torture away.

[pegasuspup.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was kind of whinging on all of the TIVA shippers, but your points about the rest of the team are quite valid. Gibbs - he might be confused about the vibes he's getting from Vance, but he certainly knows his senior field agent. I liked that Gibbs told him to continue to work the Michael angle in Semper Fidelis, and of course, everyone loves the Director David/DiNozzo interrogation scene. Go Tony!

[tejas.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, I don't see what they're seeing, either, but to each their own. It's when it gets shoved down my throat that I get ticked.

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

I've been wanting to headbutt McGee for the majority of Season Sux. Up until now, I've been able to handwave it as "Little Timmy's growing up, and growing up is never pretty," especially since my first theory about him never played out; but now I just want to tie him up and leave him to die somewhere.

Okay, not really, because I adore Sean Murray. But its a close thing.

I was also meh on Ziva and Tony. I would have liked Gibbs storylines better if they took place any other time. Alas, it seems that 1991 was some sort of time warp that Gibbs was hurtling through for quite awhile.

I stopped being a fan of Abby a long time ago, so frankly I'm not surprised or amused by her behavior. It was really only a matter of time.

If I was in charge, then I would have my writers investigating real NCIS cases and using them in the show. All we seem to get now are murders; I'd like to see kidnappings, monetary fraud, etc. Murder is boring; can I have some variety please?

Anyway, to end this rambling comment, I'd just like to say that I liked your review of the episode, and its nice to see someone who gets me. *high fives*

[bananacosmic.livejournal.com]

It seems we're quite a few who would like to get back to the heart of NCIS, rather than all this weird crap we're getting. I agree that we should get other things than just murders. Kidnappings are good (well, on TV anyway). There's lots of suspense (and maybe sometimes they don't get to the bad guy in time - that would be interesting).

Also agreed on the rest. McGee needs a good headslap. I wanted him to make some big mistake and have to rely on Tony to get him out, or have him make a mistake and get Tony hurt, for him to start realizing his own faults - but that doesn't seem to be happening, unfortunately.

Abby has been god-awful for a while. "Dog tags" was the episoed where I lost all respect and most of my love for her.

[jack-infinitude.livejournal.com]

I agree that we should get other things than just murders.

Thank you! It's just been driving me mad...NCIS does not exclusively investigate killings! *rage* It would just be so much fun to see them tracking down someone in true investigative style, with paper trails and whatnot. I love that kind of stuff...

I wanted him to make some big mistake ... for him to start realizing his own faults - but that doesn't seem to be happening, unfortunately.

I waited all season for Tony to take him by the back of the neck and give him a good shake. So not only "WTF McGee?" but also "WTF Tony?" for letting McGee slap him around like that.

Abby has been god-awful for a while. "Dog tags" was the episoed where I lost all respect and most of my love for her.

THIS.